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Bar Width and Handling

09 Saturday Jan 2016

Tags

albastache, albatross, bar width, bikepacking, cycling, ergonomics, handlebar, Hunqapillar, leverage, low-trail, nitto noodles, rivendell, steering


As a follow up to my post on trail, this is a related experiential review on the role of bar width and the interaction with trail.  This may impact someone’s decision on whether high or low trail is right for them by basing it on one’s comfort with wide or narrow bars.  It also may impact the decision based on what you will be using the bike for, and where you plan to do most of your riding.

Low trail is great with narrow bars

On my Vélo Routier, having narrow bars is comfortable, and I have no problem putting feedback into steering even at higher speeds.  I currently use 42cm Noodles, and have plenty of control.

Higher trail is great with wider bars

Wide bars (48cm and wider) work very well on higher trail bikes.  They give you the leverage you need to turn during even an “in the rails” higher speed maneuver.

The further away from your steering axis you have your hands, the more they will have input on steering – this is true for any bike and any amount of trail.  To get a consistent steering input impact and feel, you should be able to compensate for higher trail with wider bars.

Adding bar width to compensate for trail will keep steering input feel approximately equivalent//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js

This is why offroad motorcycles/bicycles have wide handlebars, and most city or road motorcycles/bikes tend to have narrow bars.  Big generalization here, but I have definitely noticed this on several occasions. This is not really a discussion based on rider ergonomics and comfort, but a general handling conversation.  If you are a rider that needs a wider or narrower bar, it may help to understand how that will impact handling based on what trail geometry your bike has.

Real World Example

In prep for my last adventure, I wanted drop bars due to the length and time I would be in the saddle.  The Oregon Outback, at 360 miles and mostly dirt roads, would be an endurance test.  I wanted the most hand positions possible, and had done long rides in drops with plenty of comfort.  I used 44cm Noodles on my mid/high trail Hunqapillar with the thought that they would add a bit of leverage, but be very close to my “perfect” rando bar, the 42cm Noodle.

Reality was a bit different.  While I was plenty comfortable with the bars, and had no hand numbness or pain, there were several times where I wished for more leverage.  The amount of weight I had on the bike made these bars too narrow for the dirt trails.  I had to put a lot more effort into keeping the bike tracking at low speeds and up hills.  This was less noticeable when I was on nicely paved sections, but the dirt roads added difficulty.

On the fast downhills, the gyro effect tended to add to the effort required to steer.  I was hit by an incredible wind gust at the very bottom of a 30+mph descent near the end of the ride, and I barely escaped launching off the side of the dirt road.  If I hadn’t been near the middle of the road, it would have been grim – the bike tracked me all the way to the far edge before I got enough muscle into keeping on the road.

Lesson – I’m putting a wider bar on this bike.  Likely either the new Choco bars from Rivendell, or the Albatross/stache bars I’ve used in the past.  A nice Jones H-bar would be great, as well, providing even more leverage and plenty of hand positions.

BH-88.jpg

44cm – a bit too narrow

BH-9.jpg

55cm – just right

Posted by Stonehog | Filed under Cycling, Enduro Offroad, Northwest, Randonneuring

≈ 3 Comments

Camping With Bikes

06 Saturday Jul 2013

Posted by Stonehog in Cycling

≈ 10 Comments

Tags

a. homer hilsen, acorn bags, active volcanoes, ahh, albatross, B17, bicycle, bike, Bike Camping, cycling, cypres, drop bars, dureme, Gran Bois, hilsen, homer, Hunqapillar, LHT, Manny Principle, mountain rides, mt adams, rando, randonneur, rivendell, sam hillborne, schwalbe, Seattle, snow, Snow Bike, Snow Cycling, Surly, underbiking, volcano


Seattle vs. Portland Riv Rumblers

Last month, I met up with some fellow north-westerners for a couple mountain rides between Seattle and Portland.  The goal was a nice weekend with a potential shot at going over Babyshoe Pass early in the season.  If nothing else, we would see some snow and avoid the bugs that start swarming a bit later in the summer.  The 2-hour drive south reminded me why I live here.  Lots of wilderness very close to home.  I was driving to a rendezvous between 3 active volcanoes in the Cascades mountain range.  We would be closest to Mt. Adams with possible views from the ride, but Rainier and St. Helens were nearby, as well.  As I got close to Randle, WA, I lost all cell service – this was a signal that vacation time was ON!

North Fork Campground - Randle, WA

North Fork Campground – Randle, WA

We had reserved a group site at the North Fork Campground 12 miles out of Randle.  I arrived around the same time as Charlie (from Eatonville), and we started setting up in the reserved spot, but when the rest of the group showed up (Andy, Chris, and Aaron from Portland), we explored a few other sites, and chose one that was right next to the river.

Campin’ by the River

Not too many people were camping the weekend after Memorial Day.  With 4 tents and 1 hammock, we were spread out nicely.  Our camp could normally accommodate 20 tents!

Chris and Aaron’s Tents

The setting was beautiful Northwest – lush, green, and budding with spring.  Ferns, moss, and huge evergreens all around us.  It had rained quite a bit before the trip, but we were into a short spell of dry weather.

Full Camp?

After we set up camp, we set off on the first ride.  We chose FS 22 heading east, and it was a good immediate climb on gravel.

Day 1 Ride

We rode up leisurely as we all got to know each other.  A fair amount of time was spent off the bike taking in the scenery, and just geeking out on our setups. All but one bike was by Rivendell.  There were 2 A. Homer Hilsens ridden by Andy and Chris, a Hillborne ridden by Aaron, and Charlie’s lone Surly Long Haul Trucker.

Bikes of Day 1

I took the Hunqapillar on this ride.  Since it was an unofficial “Rivendell ride”, I had both my A. Homer Hilsen, and the Hunqa packed.  I wanted to see how they both fared on the rougher mountain gravel roads.  I had changed out the Nomad tires for my 50mm Duremes with their more aggressive tread and larger volume.  We didn’t get into much nasty trail, but the couple areas of “rough stuff” we hit made me appreciate the mammoth bike’s capacity as a real mountain bike.  It rode nicely over everything I threw at it, and it brought back memories of my early ’90s rigid Stumpjumper Pro.  The Albatross bars and front V-Brakes proved to be great on the rough trail.

First Day’s Apex

We took a side trail up an overgrown trail to a nice meadow with a great view back down the valley we had just climbed.  We rested for a bit, and had a snack before making the quick descent down to camp.  On the way down, we took another side trail down to the river.  This one was an older, overgrown jeep track and made for some fun riding over roots and blow-down.

Trail Riding on Day 1

Singletrackin’

After the nice descent back to camp, the Portland crew set about making a superb dinner of pasta and white sauce with morels and a great salad, while I walked around soaking up the camping atmosphere and helping Andy get a fire started.  His chopping knife was a trip!  We used that and a hatchet to make up the kindling.  Some of the wood was a bit wet, so it was a smokey end to the day.

Woodsman

Portland Crew Dinner

After a late night around the fire, and a great sleep by the roaring river, I felt refreshed as ever.  I set about making breakfast and coffee for the campers, and got most of my stuff packed up for a quick getaway after our day-2 ride.

Chilaquiles, anyone?

Another healthy meal

Charlie had to get home, so we bid him well, and took our group photos.  Ready for the next adventure, we set off on FS 23 with a destination of getting close to Babyshoe Pass and some scenic views of Mt. Adams.  Today, it was the Hilsen’s turn at gravel.  This bike was set up with standard rando gear – trod with Gran Bois Cypres tires, and carrying 2 cameras, rain coat and food in a Boxy Rando bag.  We hit the mountains on 3 AHHs and a Sam Hilborne.

Joy Riding!

Today’s ride was a bit more ambitious.  If all went according to plan, we would double the distance and elevation of the prior day with around 40 miles and 5000 ft of climbing.

Wing formation

With a bit more shade, the day was perfection for a long ride.  Amazing views around every corner helped to keep everyone jazzed.  Destination snow or Babyshoe.  Most likely snow, but who could tell?

Destination? Who cares…

After a while the road turned to gravel, and we started climbing in earnest.  We finally hit snow within a mile of our destination at around 4300′ elevation.

End of the dry road

Andy noticed that there should be a fork within a quarter mile, and after a short committee decision where we invoked the “Manny Principle”*, we forged ahead to the adventure that awaited us all!  It ended up looking something like this:

Pushin’ on…

And this:

More pushin’…

Until we found a meadow, the fork, and paved road again.

Meadow

Fork

It was a short respite as we turned around heading NW on the north slope that didn’t seem to want to start declining too soon.  We ended up pushing/straddling our new snow bikes for a mile or so before we ended up back in the mostly snow-free but still very wet next phase of our ride.  During the snow phase, it was great fun to see how far you could bike in the tire tracks that had been lain some unknown time prior to our arrival.  Most of the time, you could sit on the saddle and paddle along with your feet on the raised snow, but if you pedaled, your feet sunk into the banks.  I had a successful ride through one of the snow fields, and my confidence was raised enough to try to ride the next one (larger and deeper unbeknown to me), so I got some speed up for the attempt.  As I started across it, things went sideways – my front tire started out riding up on the old tire tracks, but quickly sunk in.  Once that started, it was only a few seconds before it swallowed the wheel enough to catapult me over the bars in a spectacular (to the watching jays) endo, spilling me and my entire bag’s worth of food and camera gear into the snow.  Nothing hurt in a snow landing, and the bike checked out.  After a hasty re-packing and snow dusting, I was back on my way.

Snow cowboys!

After Andy’s toes had thoroughly gone numb in his sandals, the road finally turned back to gravel, but it was not much of a road at that.  This was definitely less-traveled with snow melt ruts, random sharp fist-sized stones, and lots of overgrowth to keep you busy.

Descending

Recalling the joys of descending on a mountain bike, I quickly rode far past my current bike tire’s capacity hitting speeds around 30mph, and suddenly felt my rear tire go limp.  Yes – a pinch flat will kill a descent faster than a broken regulator.

Testing the kit in the wild

After the break, we got back to the art of the fast mountain ride, and had a great time with over 5 miles of glorious downhill under-biking.  I had no idea a rando bike with skinny 31mm tires could handle terrain I usually ride on a front suspension MTB.  Still, the Hunqapillar may have been a better choice for day 2.  I had pushed, and perhaps found the limits of the AHH.  With no real harm done, at that.

It’s like skiing in the summer!

Back on the pavement, I appreciated the final minutes of the ride with new friends.  When we got back to camp, we all congratulated each other on an excellent adventure, and vowed to come back in years to come.  I am hoping that this was the first of many trips to the volcanoes.  With the beauty of the rides, and the amazing lack of population and drivers, it’s a treasure close to home.

Snow tires!

The path on Day 2

The path on Day 2

* Manny Principle – according to Smitty:

“Mere uncertainty and tardy-ness are not sufficient reasons to abandon an adventure. Unless danger is imminent, the adventure must move forward.”

More Diamonds on an Albatross

29 Wednesday May 2013

Posted by Stonehog in Cycling

≈ Leave a comment

Tags

albatross, cotton tape, harlequin wrap, Newbaum's, nitto


I did another diamond (harlequin) tape wrap on my Hunqapillar with Albatross bars.  I’m liking the gray and maroon cotton Newbaums tape as a match for the bike.  I will eventually put clear shellac and darken the gray tape a bit, but for now, I’m enjoying the raw cotton feel.  Here are some pics from the process:

Half-done

Cat’s view

With Dog

6 per side

 

Grip with Cork Underneath

Forward Grip Curves

 

 

 

 

Albatross Bar Conversion

23 Thursday May 2013

Posted by Stonehog in Cycling

≈ 2 Comments

Tags

albatross, bike bags, bike basket, bike commuting, commuting, country bike, Hunqapillar, midge, nitto, rambler, rivendell, truck


Back when I was riding a mountain bike to work regularly, I bought Albatross bars to get a more upright position.  While I enjoyed the wide range of positions for my hands, the one issue I had was a lesser ability to get “aero” when it was windy.  In my rambling experiments, these fell out of fashion after a time and I moved on to drops.

Original Albas

I recently revived the bars when I wanted to get my camp bike set up for an upcoming Seattle/Portland Riv Ramble that will be happening near the halfway point of Packwood, WA.  I started the conversion away from the road-friendly Nitto Noodles to the more dirt oriented Midge bars.  They seemed to be too much of a compromise in that they didn’t offer the feel of drops with the big vertical differences, and didn’t have an “upright” position.

Midge Conversion

The Albatross bars are all about upright, but also flare forward of the stem for a stretched position.  There is also the near-stem narrow position that gets one in a nice aero setup, as well.  I had an older mountain bike stem from a ’92 Stumpjumper Pro that had enough reach to push the Albatross bars out far enough to get that aero position I need for the windy days, as well as enabling me to extend the bar ends back even more with bar end shifters.  Here’s what it looks like:

Albatross with long stem

I got a chance this week to test the wind theory, with a couple commutes.  May is a great month for me as the wind often shifts mid-day giving me headwinds both ways.  Using the inner hand position, I was able to get a nice aero tuck on the bike.  Holding the forward curves also kept me out of the wind, and if I bent my elbows, I could get nearly as aero as on drop bars.  The leverage from 56cm bars is another great benefit of these bars.

Bars from the back

Riding with Albas may even be safer on a commute.  For example, I take a route that runs downhill on a busy arterial on the way into work, and often cars are backed up across intersections. There is constant danger of cars/bikes/people crossing in front of me between stopped traffic.  I noticed right away that riding upright affords a much better view of traffic and potential collision fodder.  Side benefit or primary if you’re a safety hound…

Bagger

OK – I’m not fooling myself, part of why I like this setup is that it is the configuration of the Riv video that originally piqued my interest in the Hunqapillar, and it gives the bike a different, more specific setup than my other bikes.  It really is a country rambler, camp/tour bike now with the capacity to be a great commuting “truck” when I need/want to carry a lot of cargo.  As it is a stiffer bike than the Homer, it feels both heavier, and more solid when carrying loads.  That’s great if I’m not tired out, but I’ll have to evaluate it after a couple days of touring around in the hills.

 

 

Bosco Bars

02 Thursday Aug 2012

Posted by Stonehog in Cycling

≈ 2 Comments

Tags

albatross, bosco, dirt drop, Grant Petersen, Miyata, nitto, rivendell


Homer-1.jpgHomer-2.jpgHomer-3.jpg

Bosco, a set on Flickr.

I’ve added a new bar to the mix. This went on a bike it was seemingly designed for. I have an ’88 Miyata mountain bike that is long and low, and was built as a downhill racing bike for the mighty Greg Herbold. I had used Nitto Albatross bars on it for a few years, and they were almost perfect, but I felt that I couldn’t get low enough as I used a “dirt drop” stem to get them up high enough for upright commute duty. The Grant Petersen designed Boscos do a great job of giving two extreme positions that is really the beauty of a good drop bar. If I hold the flat center position, I get a stretched out, low profile, and If I want upright, the swept back portion is high and mighty long. So far, so good.

Two considerations in going with this bar. I put a 13 cm stem on it to get it far enough forward so the back of the bars don’t impale my legs. It also helps stretch me out. I also had to really crank the stem down on the bar to keep it from moving. This bar has some serious leverage!

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